NKOTB & me
I've worked with New Kids on the Block since their return in 2008. Iv'e choreographed and creative directed for them for music videos, television performances and sold out world tours. This podcast is me talking about specific moments in time with the band. A behind the scenes in what goes into creating these performances.
NKOTB & me
Episode 1: "Please Don't Go Girl" Las Vegas style
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This is the official first episode of "NKOTB & me. A behind the scenes look at how Joey McIntyre and I came up with the latest stage version of "Please Don't Go Girl" now playing at the New Kids on the Block Las Vegas residency " The Right Stuff" at the PARK MGM. We often don't have the time or space to look back, reflect and remember everything that happens so fast in our world. So this is that. Something for the creatives, the fans, the friends, family and all who have been inspired by live stage, theater and creative visions. Hope you enjoy.
What name would you name a podcast for me telling New Kids Secrets? All I came up with was NKO T B and me. Like Marley and me. So either this is episode one of the people.
SPEAKER_02And it should be you with five puppies. Yeah. Five golden retrievers. Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_01So the first question is what were you thinking before I had any information or knowledge? And I got a relayed message saying Joe wants to incorporate the dancers in Please Don't Go Girl. And I was like, is it roller skating? Like, what are we doing? Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Well, what's funny is a couple of things. Um, and I will digress. So um you you're gonna have to get the the scissors out. Since we got back together in 2008 and and our relationship and collaboration, you know, started. Please don't go girl was always something that was like important to me to just just have a journey like even behind the scenes, you know what I mean, and get my hands dirty and have something to live up to. And like, how do I how do I top it? How do I make it different? And um, as the tours have gone on in the years, they have been more and more diverse. And so we've basically, you know, had different kinds of conversations about please don't go girl along the way. Yeah, and sometimes they were small, and sometimes they were easy, and I want to take it down. And you've always been so gracious and loving and held the whole operation as always with all of us to jump to Vegas. I was in a car, I think I was doing some solo dates or something, and I had to pull over because I had to get on the phone with you and Travis. And Travis is the other creative director who, you know, put the Vegas show together in one of our other tours. We were all on the phone. We were like, we were like spitballing and whiteboarding on the phone. I left a phone call, not sure what we came up with. There was an energy. There was an energy.
SPEAKER_01I remember that really well. That phone call was insane because I was like, I'm just gonna hold my tongue until um maybe they'll solve it. Like maybe I'm not needed for anything. And the only idea I had in my pocket was the picture frame. I did it once as a dancer, and um, all I remember was whenever we were in humid countries on tour and we were holding our pose, like these bugs would come and hit our face, and we'd be like, Oh, while we're posing. Oh my god. And it wasn't as evolved, there wasn't a storyline or movement. We were just in the back while Mariah was singing.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And then later down the road, Beyonce did one, Dangerously in love, and it was so beautiful and it was moving. And I was like, oh, this world continues on. You know, everything kind of maybe has been done in some way, but you do it your own way. And I had nothing to bring to this phone call, but I also wasn't scared, except Travis was like, we got a scrim and we can do this, and we haven't done that.
SPEAKER_02And I was like, He kind of comes, you know, amazing 100 miles an hour that that energy sometimes. Yeah, in that call, it was.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And I was like, okay, here goes nothing. And I was like, what about uh portrait picture frame? And obviously, you were already seeing that, so you were like, Yeah, but yeah, I didn't even know. Maybe I love the idea so much.
SPEAKER_02I like I thought I came up with it or something like that.
SPEAKER_01I don't think you did come up with it, and I just met you there because yeah, I had already got this line that said Joe wants to incorporate dancers. So if that had been relayed to me, you must have already envisioned this somehow. Yeah. And then magically, sometimes, like, you know, you just happen to catch someone on the right wavelength.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And that's what happened in the call. And I was so um like, whoo, that worked. And then it helps for context. Like, I made a little visual inspiration with Sunday in the park, with the dancer, with some other um cool things that felt right in this way. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Once once we started saying like this picture, right, for all the for all the theater kids out there, the first thing that came to me was the Son Time musical Sunday in the Park with George, right? So that's where I saw the frame of this picture. And and I think I remember on the spot, it was like you were really kind of like that artist. You were really like the painter. It was almost like only you saw saw the finished product.
SPEAKER_01I remember um you guys were taking a break. Well, they're gone. I'm gonna, I'm gonna put the dancers in place. And I had to figure out how to stage it without the band being available. So I thought I was a genius by putting mic stands and even the color of the coded mic stands. And then you came back early and were like, Kevin, come here. Oh my god. Why are there mic stands in there? And I I came over like a little puppy dog, like Joe's gonna call me genius because I am blocking the band without bothering them because everyone's busy, someone's doing something, someone's recording, someone's this, whatever it is. It was just placeholders, and you were like, I don't know.
SPEAKER_02You mean I jumped the gun? Yeah, come on, man. Me?
SPEAKER_01I was like, I don't jump the gun. Oh my god. And and on top of that, like I was just trying to make the pictures without doing you like your part. Yeah. Just want to see from picture A to picture B, that's what the script kind of was that these pictures will work. Right. And then um, and then Donnie was like, I like the mic stands. And I was like, Shh, don't those are people. Now I remember that. Yeah, now I remember that, which is yeah. And then it yeah, and for me, it felt like the first time in the history of um of new kids where I had to put my foot down where you were like, Can I see, or are you open to feedback? And I remember saying, No, you're supposed to be on break for another 15 minutes. You guys aren't even supposed to be here. Yeah, those microphones are not lines, those are the band because everyone's scattered. I haven't even jumped in as you. And I started, I was like, Kevin, shut up. Your tone, your tone is getting weird. And right, stop talking to them like that.
SPEAKER_02Well, yeah. Um, what I remember most, which makes sense, is that in the way normally it's it's all good, and like Donnie was just trying to collaborate and help out. But I'm what what got me is like, no, no, no. I'm trying to give Kevin space. Uh-huh. I have ideas too, so don't interject your ideas just yet, because we're, you know, that kind of thing. But I I do remember that.
SPEAKER_01I remember feeling like, yeah, okay, well, you bought yourself 10 more minutes, but but they're still there.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And then I went and um, I'm not I I I'm a fan of freestyling and being uninhibited and free when I'm by myself or in a safe space. That area is not a safe space nor by myself. No, you were wide open. Um everybody was in the room. When when we turned the music on, and I was like, okay, I'm just gonna trust that these pictures work and I'm gonna be Joe, and you were watching me, and I had no idea what I was doing or anything. But if I wasn't free and if I wasn't present and if I wasn't fully committed, I it wouldn't work. So I was like, I don't know what I'm doing, I don't know what I look like, I don't know anything. And then I turned and you were like, that's it. And yeah, great. And I was like, oh my god, oh my god, it worked. And you're like, yeah, try it again, and then this, and I was like, Yeah, what did I do? And yeah, yeah, we'll help you, we'll talk to you. And then so everyone's kind of like whispering to me, and I'm still trying to be present and free because if I'm authentically feeling it, it's it's honest and true for you to receive it. Right. But if I'm like putting on a show, you're gonna feel the it's not authentic. So even just like folding in the chair and like these weird, like uh inverted positions, and I I just remember feeling um like I was being pushed in a way that I really appreciated, and I haven't been pushed in a long time. Yeah, where I am I'm always trying to look at from the outside, even if I'm choreographing it on the inside. Yeah, but now I'm in the you or you're watching it. I don't have a plan. Yeah, I'm just being free as if, and it just worked out that you liked it. And I went home that day, like or to the hotel, just like elated. Like it worked, and it's gonna be amazing. And oh my god. And but I was um shitting my pants that day in rehearsal, and uh Sonny was standing in for somebody, and we had to move the mic stands like the they were the band from picture to picture. Meanwhile, like we don't know what's going on, and then there's crew people just walking past in the way and all these things. But that rehearsal was something I'll never forget. Oh, that's sweet.
SPEAKER_02I love, yeah. I felt that, of course, it didn't look that way because you're a pro and like you make everything look easy. Kevin usually every move the last 20 years, you know what I mean? It's like if we could just do it like Kevin, it it would be he makes everything look easy, but it takes a lot of work to make things look easy. But and and I and I will say that maybe not with you, but sometimes like I want to figure it out myself, you know what I mean? Lots of times, yeah, lots of times, and I'm sure you'll that make sense. But I do remember that, yeah. Um, is going, oh, I'll do that. Some people, some performers are like, show me what to do. Yeah, I don't need to figure it out. I like the I think it's partly I like the figuring it out, that process. Part of it is probably a little ownership and a little ego that I want to figure it out, that kind of thing. But like I didn't need to make so for so many reasons because you're amazing and you're such a good friend now, and I trust you, and like what a what an example. It's not like you're doing stuff that you know doesn't look great. But I do remember that now that you said that, I was like, that's it. And I wasn't sure, you know what I mean? And I'm still not sure, which is okay. You know what I mean? I'm still playing with things within this. I don't have a lot to do up there. Um, but uh I do remember the you know, you sitting down first in the chair and you know, giving me these, you know, ideas to to play with.
SPEAKER_01One of the big inspirations was the Black Mirror um episode with Array.
SPEAKER_02Right, right. You told me to watch that.
SPEAKER_01I watched that when one person's isolated, not necessarily everyone has to be frozen, but you can feel that isolation. Or if you're out at a big place, sometimes you feel more lonely, or you know, like New York City or anything in that world. And uh it reads so well because I think you jumped in fast enough where you were in control over how things flowed. And because you're so open artistically, I was able to enhance because we only have two female performers. So I was like, can I get feathers to one of the boys to be more feminine? Can I give a cane? I I wanted to feel still like the dancer, yeah, where the ballet teacher has a cane. And you know, even though you already said, I don't want the lines of the microphone standing, I was like, okay, this cane's a risk, but yeah, I see it. And then I was like, maybe two canes. It was so cool that you were open to enhancing this world because all their outfits were coming from uh you know the Rat Pack nightclub.
SPEAKER_02Well, that was sort of felt, I mean, it's all perfect, but like that that felt for me like a happy accident, which doesn't make any sense. It's like, well, what do you mean? Well, that was a set, and please don't go girl is kind of finishing that act. But we're slowly setting up the you know, the environment or the the we're we're we're slowly asking for the permission, right? You know, we're saying after all that, I think you might be ready because all of that beautiful, gorgeous yes, it it has a more of a hip-hop. You know what I mean? What what what takes it? You know, we take it from like hip-hop and like in the club and jazz and like modern and cool and a little bit of you know fire, and then you know, the ballads come in, and now we're still in that world, you know, but it's just a little bit more fantastic.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it felt like it went to black and white, it felt like a dream, yeah, or it felt like a a haze at the uh at the end of a night when you're out uh um partying. Yeah, three in the morning, yeah, you're getting out of the club, and you're like, that was the night of my life. That's true, and you have these memories, but that's kind of what it felt like seeing it, and then and then it was your idea to make everything um asymmetrical, to have it all on diagonals. Yeah. So I don't know if the audience notices that, but it kind of shifts from this diagonal to center to that diagonal, and it always makes you uh a pop out without being center. And in the the world of new kids, whoever is singing is either gonna be center or out on the side and forward, right? But for you to be like bleeding down through this picture and over in the bottom really separated you from the party, and it made it feel so beautiful and vulnerable and lonely at that in that way. Yeah, no, it's the audience going, I have that that sound on video from that first night. Yeah, yeah. And every night that I I even have chills now, but every the first few nights I was there, you can hear the gasps, audible gasps of the artists. That's what we live for.
SPEAKER_02And this like that very first opening night, the first show, the first it comes up, that was it, man. That was what you live for, you know. It was oh, you know, it was like now we've heard screams, right? Yeah, we've heard screams from 40 years, definitely the last 15, 16, 17 years. But but to uh, you know, evoke a different sound of wonder and surprise was very, very satisfying. Yeah, it made it made me so happy.
SPEAKER_01I would just sit and watch like from different angles and watch it all. And yeah, it could go wrong, it could be too randomly theater. Right. Um, it at the end of a section, you want to do a finale of fireworks, yeah. And this is like a blurred dream while you're going home of how good it felt. Yeah. And we've never done anything like that. And yeah, it was just uh such a magical culmination of things to that opening night. It's it's a fine line of like uh commercial product, um art and uh repertoire and nostalgia, and you have to walk these lines with the group, right? And um being artsy isn't uh you know something that excites everyone in general, right? Um, where you're like walking four miles to get here and taking in all the air and smells and things, but um, it's also a skill to, you know, um drive fast. Right. So this teetering of artistic integrity was risky because there's nothing like that. Yeah, you always do that.
SPEAKER_02It can feel avant-garde in the pop sense, you know, which is like a big word, but like even if you're thinking that, and it's kind of it's it's exciting, right? Because we want to challenge ourselves and we want to push the envelope while respecting all the things you were talking about. I again I saw you having that experience. Like that really connects for me, like you saying, I didn't want to go into this, or I don't like going into it with too much prep. Uh-huh. And with this, it made sense that I'm seeing this more because um there's so many moving parts. You don't just have five now, you have what, uh six, uh a huge stage. And then at the same time, it was a new experience because I knew I I couldn't, you know, even if I wanted to, and script it out, like I knew you had the idea and you got it. So I didn't come with a lot of ideas with this one because I didn't know how to drive the bus. I couldn't, you know, there was too many moving parts. And then another thing that's coming up is vulnerability. That's so important, you know what I mean? Like vulnerability is so important. Like it was you're you're you're practicing vulnerability by going, I'm I don't know yet. You know what I mean? Like in real time. Yeah. And like I'm being vulnerable because I'm asking the group again to like maybe step out of their comfort zone. And by the way, I do that, you know, sometimes in my mind, we tell ourselves, like, they're not gonna like this. Oh god, they're gonna go, oh Joe, here's our T Farty guy, you know. And um they've always stepped up because I've always asked them to do a little bit more or step out a little bit more, or in my mind, for Please Don't Go Girl. And they've always played along.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um, in 2002, like I said, can I climb up on you guys? Like, you know, like Lemisarab, like, you know. Yeah, that was, you know, and it worked. It was weird, but it worked, you know what I mean? But this this was a much bigger deal, and they showed up and they said, Where do you want me? And they enjoyed it. You know what I mean? And like, um, and I didn't even there's so much going on. Like, recently I didn't know how much of a moment like Danny had in the beginning. Because I'm just focusing on mine, and all I know is that Danny's going from here to over there. But what's so cool is like, you know, and frankly, in 2002, I asked him to like not have a moment and you know, a little BTS, like, you know, he wasn't super comfortable with that. He's like, where do you want me? I'm like, um, nowhere just yet. You know what I mean? So I think I think it's a really nice full circle moment, you know what I mean? To to have him, you know, kick off the song like he has for 40 years, 40 something years, you know what I mean? It's his voice that like really sets the story. So there's a lot of lovely moments, and Jordan loves the part when he's up there and he's sort of like the so, anyways, not not to you know, fan out on our thing, but um, I think um what you were saying, like the vulnerability part.
SPEAKER_01Um when we're creating a show, um you can either say, I have a vision and here's what I want, and you are moving that direction and you're getting the best out of it, and maybe there's little tweaks along the way, or there's another approach where you're like, What do we have left to use? What could happen? Where is it? And there's a lot of risk and magic in that. That that being vulnerable and waiting, because um, you know, like if you go to a fitting, you can go first and get the best look, or you can be last, which could give you the last of it, or it could be save the best for last. Right. And um, I'm not using it. That's a great analogy.
SPEAKER_02The old fitting, yeah. The five guys, yeah. I think also what's nice is that like you get the both best of both worlds. Yeah, you get Danny in a spotlight saying this iconic intro while taking in everybody else's, and it doesn't detract. Uh-huh. I'm I'm a real stickler for pulling focus. Kevin, Kevin knows this. Like the the lightest thing, the guys know it. This this really kind of puts a capache on that because there's so much going on, but you get to take it in and feel it and absorb it, and then see see us like you haven't seen us. So it's like d like like Jordan. You think, well, Jordan's singing his part, and he's really much upstage, but you're seeing him in this, it it's sort of like that. You know what I mean? You're like your whole body is sort of like reaching out for it, and everybody's there, and it's just like very, really cool. It's like a great lesson, you know, of how you can uh pull focus and how you can sort of like you know, in so many different ways. And it was really fun to, especially in our capacity, right? Because it's always usually like we're shot out of a can. You know this. You think, yeah, how many, how many triangles and staggers and two, three, and one and five, and whatever, you know what I mean? And and we do that well, and it's exciting to do that and mix it up, and that's such a big part of you know the math of what we do. But like this was uh, this was really cool.
SPEAKER_01It's like when you see those um the people walking the Met Gala with the stairs, yeah, and their gown drapes all the way down. That's like Jordan essentially when he's singing. And it was so nice to be like, okay, a little drip this way, but it has the the river has to go that way and flow down, and then it goes over there. Yeah. And the stage has grating that's kind of uncomfortable to be on, and then steps and angles, which made it really fun.
SPEAKER_02It's a lot of moving parts, especially for the guys. You know, of course, you have professional dancers, so they're used to it and they're up for the challenge. But you have four guys walking up and down and freezing, and you know, there's not a ton of, you know, um, it's a lot of moving parts. So it's
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and and it's a hard, very tricky thing, especially the first time we were creating it, to incorporate the female dancers in essentially what would be like a love story. Yeah. But they're more of a memory, and it's always a fine line to walk because you don't want to, you know, like just make it so cliche and then you dance with the girl and then she's sad or whatever it is. So for her to like not see you or you not see her, or Danny to follow Natalie, um, all of it just felt so cool, and everyone still has focus. There's equity. There's equity in there.
SPEAKER_02I'll use that word, that big word. But there is, and everybody's having their own experience too. You know what I mean? That's what it feels like as well. Yeah. Which is which is a fun thing to do, as far especially like, okay, this is a moment. Again, that vulnerability and the generosity, like throughout. You know what I mean? And like, you know, even the idea that, oh yeah, that's not about me. Like, this is but this is my moment. Yeah. And I said, What do you mean it's not about me? And it's like, but it's not, you know what I mean? It's it's about everybody, it's about the picture, it's about the whole, the whole picture.
SPEAKER_01Now everyone's like, maybe I could do this. Yeah. What about? And I'm like, okay, okay, now they're into the world.
SPEAKER_02And trusting it too, the more because it w it sounds like, yeah, they're trusting it more. And I, I, I guess that's why it's good to to look at some of the film, you know what I mean? Because sometimes like, don't look or just let it be, but like, oh, oh, I can trust that more. You know, even vocally too. I mean, that's the age-old, you know, conundrum. You know, you go, oh, I didn't have to push there. Uh actually sounds better when I do it lighter, you know, that kind of thing. So the same way vocally, it's like, you know, physically and sitting in it, oh, are they gonna get that I'm, you know, working it out here? It's like, yeah, they are, you know, they are. I could see that, you know.
SPEAKER_01Did you feel that on the first night, or were you like, here we go, whether they get it or not? You know, like what were you?
SPEAKER_02That's why, that's why that first reaction, before I really even I did anything. You know what I mean? I I mean I kick it off and undo my time. But then that first moment when the picture comes, it's before, it's right when I turn up to walk up the stairs. So that's why it was fun to like I got to experience that because my back's to the audience. Yeah. So it was just like, you know, it was cool to just really like soak up that first reaction.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Um it doesn't start like a typical number where it just opens and everything's laid out for you, and you go, oh, yeah. And it would have been really easy to open this world and your center, or it would have been really easy to just have only a light on you and then the lighting's great.
SPEAKER_02I mean, Travis and the team, they they did a great job. I I guess, I guess, again to that is like again, normally in this pop world, it's like spotlight here, spotlight here, boom, boom, bing, bang, boom. But this is really like it breathes a lot, you know, and yeah and and therefore again that vulnerability to like trust that everybody's doing their job, you know what I mean? And we don't have to lighting was a big part of me realizing I didn't have to do much.
SPEAKER_01You know, when you um perform it now, are you just fully free and I mean I'm um I'm still working it out, you know.
SPEAKER_02It's like I'm not Fred Estare, but I can make believe as best I can as I'm Fred Estare and like this movement, like at first do do it doing the 808, like do do do cat, do do do do do cat, and like slowly but surely, and I'll even do it more, and I gotta check in, like I don't have to do that much. I and the l actually duh, but less is more. Uh-huh. I thought like I was moving around and I thought I had to like swing my arms around and maybe do that. And it that's that's okay, like to find it and it might work, but like I realized like it it can be uh almost pedestrian, like what I was doing. Yeah, you know, because okay, yeah, I'm I'm going on the 808 and that first hit, you know, pushes me into the whole, you know, thing. But then walking over. Yeah, it just it's it's almost like it's pedestrian. You know, it's gonna be cool and it's gonna feel right, but um not not doing too much, you know.
SPEAKER_01For like the the audience, um, they don't really get to know that the way you think is the 808 makes you contract because it's pulling you into this world. They don't know that, yeah, but they feel that because that's what your intention is giving all the time. They don't know um Natalie and Danny had a backstory, but he's following her, and they're like, Well, she's leaving. Yeah, and they're they're understanding these little details that we put a lot of work into, yeah, that we normally don't get to dissect songs in that way, especially a song that has um so much life already in it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Maybe like one of a newer song we can take risks with what it is or the vibe or something. Yeah. So with this one, it was um real that's why I wrote out a whole script, which I'll try and find and you know add on to the clips here. But the but just having it like a movie was so fun in that way.
SPEAKER_02It makes me think of like also like, you know, like you said, this world, or it's it's it's it's the come down a little bit, uh huh. But it's the it's the exciting, painful, what's next, yeah. All the things. And like we're all having those experience because we're like a group of friends up there. And like, so it's like, well, wait a minute. Okay, Danny, yeah, and Natalie have this thing, but like, like any group of friends, like, yeah, we feel that. Yeah, you know what I mean? It's not our relationship, but we're getting affected by that. Yeah, and like, why did she do that?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, or when you're you know, I would have done it differently, uh-huh.
SPEAKER_02You know, all that thing, and maybe maybe Natalie's not the one I'm going after, but like it's the love and that interest, and like, how am I gonna get fulfilled and like all those things? Like, it's the world, you know, it's the world, you know, that that we're all being affected by, you know.
SPEAKER_01Now that there's only two legs, is this the end of it? Is that what it is? Is this a good thing?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I think it might, I think it just might be, you know. I mean, I don't know, maybe that being said, I look forward to like us looking at each other and saying, Can you take this on the road? Yeah, you know, can we do this in an arena without the massive Las Vegas proscenium that we have, this uh this frame outside the frame, you know what I mean? But it's uh I like I like that we're contemplating not not letting it go.
SPEAKER_01Well, yeah, I mean sometimes it's good to let it go, and you can't ever top anything, you have to just stay true to where you're at at the time. So you're always gonna be an artist who's always gonna want to take risks, yeah. However you can, especially in the shows and with with songs that you've been performing forever. Yeah, it's sweet.
SPEAKER_02I'm glad we sat down and I'm glad it means a lot to you, and it means a lot to me.
SPEAKER_01It's so magical. Everybody feels it. It's such a risk for the show with all the lasers and color and excitement and Vegas to do something so minimal. Yeah. And there's just something about the effortlessness of every element in this piece that makes every eye go like, yeah. And it's so beautiful, and I wish the whole world could see it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, now I want to see it, but I'm stuck up there now.
SPEAKER_01So now I'm just gonna have to just, you know, go on put um griff in there. Go on Instagram again.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I know, get grip in there.
SPEAKER_01Well, thank you. I appreciate it. I'm so grateful.
SPEAKER_02And uh you know they're gonna want to hear more about, you know, there's lots of other stuff in the show and over the years, so there's so much to if I'm the first new kid to be in this seat, then I'm I'm honored, but yeah, I say, you know, they're gonna be looking for the other guys too.